Movies on a Big Screen…the blog!

Here’s another installment of Microcinema Spotlight with Galen Howard! This time around, featuring an interview with both the director and subject of the great new documentary, Roll Out, Cowboy! We feel it’s important to note that Chris “Sandman” Sand responded to these interview questions from the sleeper compartment of his semi.

Artful juxtaposition addicts will want to take note of Elizabeth Lawrence’s new documentary, Roll Out, Cowboy, which follows Sandman the Rappin’ Cowboy on his nationwide tour during the 2008 Presidential election. Otherwise known as Chris Sand, he blends and balances rap and country music with a conviction and sophistication that transcends novelty without eschewing levity. Whether paying playful homage to “Rapper’s Delight,” or solemn tribute to Martin Luther King Jr., Sand’s music saunters, struts and strides through not just musical barriers, but those in age, society, politics, and so many more, one loses count. I spoke both with Elizabeth on the making of the film and with Sandman himself on his varied and unpredictable music career.

Elizabeth Lawrence

Galen Howard: What is your filmmaking background?

Elizabeth Lawrence: I grew up making short films and videos. Throughout high school, I spent nights and weekends editing my films. In short, I was the TV production nerd. I attended Columbia College Chicago and graduated with a Film/Video degree. After college, I worked for Lakeshore Entertainment on larger budget movies such as The Human Stain, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, Underworld II , etc. as a producer’s assistant. In 2007 I ached to direct something on my own, so I made the jump back to my college days eating ramen noodles and katsup. Leaving the paid position stung, but creating my own project was worth it. I invested in a camera package and caught an Amtrak ticket one way to North Dakota. Here would begin the next three years of my life: to shoot this documentary.

GH: How did you first come in contact with Sandman and ultimately involve him in the film?

EL: I first saw Sandman perform in Chicago over ten years ago. This bow-legged, wrangler jean wearin’ cowboy strut onto the stage and announced that he was, “gonna do a little old school beat boxin’ tonight.” I couldn’t believe that I stumbled upon this unique performance so I bought 2 CDs straight away. His music (was) a mishmash of folk, hip-hop and country. This cowboy wasn’t a novelty act; his songs were poetic and smart. He had lots to say and the rhythm to prove it.

Five years later, I attended another show to support a musician/friend. Low and behold, the Rappin’ Cowboy sauntered across the stage! I turned to Warner and said, “that’s the Rappin’ Cowboy!” It just so happened that Sandman was passing through town and coincidentally stumbled upon me! I marched over to him and said, “you’re the Rappin’ Cowboy. This is destiny. We’re gonna be friends.”

As many people know, when you befriend the cowboy, you agree to house and feed him when he breezes through town on tour. You listen to the cowboy rap and croon about his traveling troubadour tales. We started scheming about working together. We weren’t sure how but perhaps a music video or a record. Time passed and we always talked about projects.

In 2007, I’d been reading his blog. I read about his cross country travels, his hometown of 120 people – where he purchased a house for $1000, how most of his friend were in their 60s, 70s and 80s. Half of Sand was rooted in Dunn Center, North Dakota and the other half lived on the road. It hit me. A documentary film was the medium where these two worlds could meet, albeit awkward at times and seamless at others. It would be dramatic and entertaining at the same time. I called Chris and asked if he’d like to participate in a documentary project about his life. He agreed. Destiny led me to Dunn Center, North Dakota three weeks later.

GH: Do you think you and Chris have many similarities in your philosophy and approach regarding your respective art forms?

EL: I think Chris and I both share a desire to tell stories and create an ambiance that brings people together. I’m envious of the immediate interaction a musician shares with his audience. I wish I could write a song one day and test it on a crowd the next. No, I’m not saying song writing is easier than making a film, but the process seems easier.

Making the documentary felt lonely at times. While Elizabeth Ross (editor), Sandman, Warner or me may have understood the story’s progression, it was difficult communicating about the project with others. Capturing real life happens in real time. So short of showing people 120 hours of raw footage, there was no easy way to share the work.

GH: How did you come to work with Warner? How were your tasks divided and the vision of the film maintained between you?

EL: Warner is my partner in life and in film. We’ve been working on film/video projects together for 15 years. We met each other in the editing suites of our high school’s basement. As for Roll Out, Cowboy, it was a no-brainer that Warner would produce and I’d direct. We’d debate about a budget line item one moment and whip up a lasagna together the next.

GH: What aspects of the filmmaking process did you find particularly challenging?

EL: How about a crash course in music licensing 101 from the amazing music supervisor Robin Kaye. Without her, we wouldn’t have featured any music in our music documentary.

GH: What’s your favorite Sandman song?

EL: Toss up between “Imaginary World” and “End of America.”

GH: What is next for you?

EL: I’m making another documentary feature. I start production in February.

Chris “Sandman” Sand

GH: Which musicians (of any genre) have influenced you the most?

Chris Sand: Bob Dylan, Hank Williams, Run-DMC, LL Cool J, Woody Guthrie, John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, Jonathan Richman, Eminem, Lauryn Hill, Beat Happening, Sam Cooke, Ice T, Cat Power, R. Kelly, Phil Elverum, Melle Mel, Nina Simone, Johnny Cash, Old Time Relijun, The Ramones, Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, Michael Jackson, Townes Van Zandt, Harry Jackson, Bo Diddley, Led Zeppelin, Elvis Presley, Sade, Will Rogers, Chris Ledoux, Wesley Willis, Prince, Waddie Mitchell, Walt Whitman, Chris Rock, Carl Jung, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder, William Shakespeare, Rumi, MLK Jr., close friends and relatives.

GH: Have you found over the years that your fusion of these two (seemingly) disparate music genres has alienated you in either of those respective circles, either from fans or peers?

CS: I’ve been flipped off at rap contests for wearing a cowboy hat and kicked out of cowboy bars for rapping. I don’t feel alienated by either genre – though, that’s mainly because I don’t believe in genres. I don’t expect either Kanye West or Brad Paisley to want to tour with me, but that’s not saying they wouldn’t enjoy some of my songs. I have some fans who only seem to like my rap tracks and others who prefer my acoustic guitar songs, but they don’t openly fault me for switching back and forth. They like my versatility.

GH: You say in the film that this blending of genres in American music has gone on since the days of Woody Guthrie. That said, have you come across anyone who does anything similar to your particular country-rap fusion?

CS: Genre-bending has probably gone on since caveman days, come to think of it. Music, like language and art, has no actual boundaries. The blending of country and rap has been inevitable since day one. One of Grandmaster Flash’s main rappers in the late ’70s was named Cowboy. Likewise, Afrika Bambaataa mixed straight-up country music samples into his funk-soul-intergalactic sound. The Beastie Boys sampled Johnny Cash. Sir Mix-a-Lot had his “Square Dance Rap.” Same with Eminem. There have been novelty hits like “The Rappin’ Duke.” Kid Rock’s probably been the most successful with mixing country and rap. Beck has artfully merged the two since before “Loser.” You got Buck 65, Bubba Sparxxx, Everlast, and Cowboy Troy. Country artists like Toby Keith, Shania Twain, and Neil McCoy have dabbled with rap forms. There’s a rodeo cowboy named Paul Zarzyski who raps sometimes. In fact, cowboy poetry reminds me a lot of rap with its brag talk, regional slang, and spoken-rhymed couplets. Certain old country songs like “Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! (That Cigarrette)” and Woody Guthrie’s talkin’ blues resembled rap. Dylan had his rapid-fire “Subterranean Homesick Blues” which mimicked Chuck Berry’s “Too Much Monkey Business.” I could go on and on. What makes me unique to the artform is my balanced and unaffected output. I consider myself one of the freshest old-school-influenced rap lyricists as well as one of the most honest current country-folk singers. I’ve been switching and combining styles since 1985 which makes me the bona fide “Godfather of Country-Rap.” I prefer the moniker “Senator of Rock and Roll,” though.

GH: If you could collaborate/duet with any one performer who would you choose?

CS: Female—Mary J. Blige; male–Anthony Hamilton. (I say this sincerely. I’m a huge modern R&B fan.)

GH: How do you feel your music has evolved over the years in terms of content, style and approach?

CS: For better or worse, my lyrics and musicianship have gotten more sophisticated. My raps have evolved. I try to keep bringing my songs back to the basics, though. Simple is best, I think. In regards to content, I’ve gone through many stages: raunchy, funny, earnest, irreverent, political, inscrutable. Same with style: lo-fi, heavily produced, live, solo, with band, etc. I experiment.

GH: Has your method of self-distributing your music and remaining an unsigned artist been a matter of choice, circumstance or both?

CS: Both, I guess. I haven’t had many distribution/agent/label offers, which is probably because I haven’t sought out many offers. I have a mental block in this area. By working day jobs I’ve been able to survive, if not exactly thrive. I think I’m holding out for Rick Rubin.

GH: So far has the film helped increase your following or gain you further recognition for your work?

CS: The film is still in its infancy and, thus, has yet to have a big impact on my career. It has begun to stir the waters a bit, though. Emails from people offering to set up house shows are starting to trickle in, which is exciting. I’ve made it so people can now download CDs from my website, so hopefully this will catch on!

GH: How have your friends and family reacted to the film?

CS: No relatives have seen it yet. I’m slightly apprehensive about when they do for a variety of reasons… As for my friends, the handful of them who have seen it tell me they absolutely love it. Especially the ones who are in it.

GH: What is your idea of musical success (and do you feel you’ve achieved it)?

CS: Without a doubt I feel I’ve already achieved huge success. I’ve put out ten quality CDs, toured the nation multiple times, influenced other musicians, & stayed independent. That said I’d love to tour overseas someday.

GH: What would you say has been your proudest moment to date as a musician?

CS: Either being invited to perform at the 25th annual cowboy poetry gathering in Elko, NV last year or seeing this film come to fruition and having it be so well received. A third contender would be winning a free-style rap competition in 1996 in front of a largely African-American audience I didn’t know. I was roundly mocked before the competition but received dozens of hugs and the loudest applause afterwards. Besides gaining the crowd’s validation, which felt great, I truly needed the $100 prize money to pay my rent.

GH: If you could choose one song of yours to gain wide popularity, which would it be?

CS: Probably “Damascus.” I wrote it last year and put a version of it on YouTube. It might need some arranging yet, but I like it’s “no fences” lyrical sentiment. I’ve got another one in the works called “break me open” that has potential if I can get it recorded right.

GH: Has seeing yourself in Elizabeth and Warner’s film given you any insight into yourself and your craft?

CS: Good question. For one thing, I notice that I change my facial hairstyle a lot. It’s funny that I’m sporting the Fu Manchu for most of the tour, as I’ve never had one before or since. Sorta wish I’d gone with muttonchops, but what can you do. It was a nod to the band I was touring with–Moustaches. Ironically, they cut theirs off before tour. I guess I felt obligated to represent and the Fu Manchu just seemed more substantial than a Lincoln beard, shit ring, or Michael Jordan-Hitler ’stache.

In all seriousness though, the film hasn’t illuminated anything I didn’t already suspect about myself. I’m a quirky, gay-friendly, bug repellent sprayin’, womanizin’, truck crashin’, Obama lovin’, small farm supportin’, fence cuttin’, broke ass rappin’ country boy. It’s always been that way for me, more or less.

Roll Out, Cowboy screens Sunday, June 20 at 7:30 PM at Movies on a Big Screen at The Guild. Rick Rubin (and anyone else) can visit Sandman at www.rappincowboy.com Check out the Roll Out, Cowboy website at www.rolloutcowboy.com